Hello from Wiesbaden

[outlaw4shrt]

Hi, my name is Adrian, and I live in Wiesbaden, DE. I am a complete newbie to all aspects of boats, boating, the sea, etc. (I had trouble answering the security question required for registration to give you an idea of who you are dealing with ). My wife and I are planning a vacation to Croatia this summer and thought it would be neat to have our own boat while we were there to travel and island hop with. We've tossed around the idea of a boat for a while and would attempt to make good use of it afterwards on the Rhine, various lakes around Europe, and for other near ocean vacations. We do have a yacht, a land yacht that is, in the form of a 2007 Toyota Sienna and thought it would sufficient in size to fit a collapsible boat and outboard inside. Researching options has led me here and I appreciate the terrific forum you all have created.

We are planning to go to the Dusseldorf boat show in a couple of weeks to do some research and figure out what makes sense for us. Right now, we are thinking an F-RIB 430 with an Evinrude ETEC 30, and some extra creature comforts like a bimini top. Any feedback on those options and/or a good newbie guide to boating, registration/licensing, seafaring, etc. would be much appreciated!

Thanks,

- Adrian

[outlaw4shrt]

Hi Adrian, Welcome aboard...
A superb introduction with some great questions...
In regard to licenses/qualifications - Not something i can help you with in Europe I’m afraid, but hopefully our superb forum friends at Dorset marine training will be able to point you in the right direction.

The F-Rib is a superb craft, A very sea worthy portable boat, the folding hull is a superb design. They are a little expensive compared to the sibs (soft inflatable hull boats) but the handling is in my opinion far superior... Though in the chop, like any small rigid hull boat, they become a little slammy on the water. The f-rib 430 is a fairly new addition so we have very little feedback on them at present.
I have the F-Rib 375 and i wouldn't swap it for anything at the moment.

The E-Tec 30 is another rarely discussed item at the moment, I think most people are happy with 20hp Suzuki or Tohatsu efi’s .. Power to weight ratio is about as good as it gets, portability is key !

Hope that helps a little…
For the best full effect answers, a question in the relevant forum/topic will get better coverage from the members.

Regards,
Martin.

[outlaw4shrt]

Hi Adrian and to the forum!

I would love to do a boating tour of Germany - my parents have cruised the Rhine a couple of times now on river cruises (not their own boat!)

The 430 is a very big boat and quite heavy. If you are going to tow it then the 430 with an ETEC 30 is a fabulous combination. @Shaun has got this setup and he seems to enjoy it very much!
If you want to pack the boat away into the car then my biggest concern would be the weight of the engine. Weighing in at over 70kg it really is too heavy for one person to lift and an awkward shape for two people.
Take a look at the F-rib 375 and a Suzuki 20. That is about the largest frib setup which can easily be packed up into a car.
The other thing is that a 430 + 30hp is quite a powerful setup for a newbie - you would need to get lots of practice! There may be some courses and things, but I don’t know much about that.
Hope that helps, or at least hasn’t put you off!

[outlaw4shrt]

Hi Adrian and welcome to the forum. We've always found a friendly welcome here so do get involved and ask questions, its an exciting time as you start your boating journey. I notice some of the others have commented on boat so I'll try to offer some advice on safety & legalities. If you were UK based we could offer more complete answers but as you're in Germany and asking about Croatia you will need to clarify the information locally.

Safety - it sounds like you are quite new to the water so do be aware that conditions on the water can change very quickly. If you are new to the water I would strongly suggest undertaking a course or taking advice face to face from an instructor or similar who can give you personalised advice based on your chosen set up. Here in the UK our boating qualifications are generally offered by the RYA and they do have centres in Germany and Croatia - you can find centres offering courses near a set location here: https://www.rya.org.uk/Pages/wheres-my- ... aspx/start Alternatively contact your local boating centres and ask them for advice on either a suitable course or bespoke training. If you planning to boat in your Country of Residency it may be preferable to take local qualifications as those will cover the issues specific to your boating conditions. I believe you may have to have evidence of competency to boat in Croatia and one way of achieving this would be to have an ICC (International Certificate of Competence). You are likely to be able to arrange that with a local centre in Germany (at least here in the UK we can) by undertaking a course. I'm afraid I don't know if there are any exemptions for small boats.

On a course you will cover information on legalities in the area you take the course, sources of information (here in the UK for example LNTMs are really useful but I wouldn't know the equivalent n each country), making plans, using forecasts, what safety kit to carry along with actually using the boat and engine checks etc
Even launching and recovery can be complex if you haven't thought about it in advance and planned for different scenarios using advice given on training courses.

In terms of legalities and paperwork you might find this link useful as a starting point for Croatia: https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDo ... ailors.pdf Amongst other things I believe you may have to have compulsory insurance and carry ownership papers, along with an ICC - not sure what size boats this things relate to - may be exemptions for small boats but do check!

I understand in Germany the boating licenses you require will vary depending on where you are boating so I highly suggest you seek local advice and then also ask how you can use any local qualifications in Croatia.

Please do seek advice from a training centre local to you. It is important to stay safe (and legal) and I honestly believe your boating will be more fun and relaxed with a bit of guidance/training beforehand.

Do stay in contact on the board and if, as your plans progress, you have specific questions on boating in Croatia do ask as Dom my partner has a contact out there who may be able to answer specific questions. Welcome to the world of boating, stay safe and have fun out there.

[chris moody]

Welcome to the forum Adrian.

Are You planning on folding up the F-Rib and putting it in the car, or always trailering it behind the car?

[outlaw4shrt]

The E-Tec 30 is another rarely discussed item at the moment, I think most people are happy with 20hp Suzuki or Tohatsu efi’s .. Power to weight ratio is about as good as it gets, portability is key !

Martin, thanks for the warm welcome! I've been watching a lot of reviews on that motor and it seems terrific. I like the fact that it is so eco friendly, particularly since it is a 2-stroke which blows my mind. To your point however, weight and portability may be an issue.

I would love to do a boating tour of Germany - my parents have cruised the Rhine a couple of times now on river cruises (not their own boat!)

The 430 is a very big boat and quite heavy. If you are going to tow it then the 430 with an ETEC 30 is a fabulous combination. @Shaun has got this setup and he seems to enjoy it very much!
If you want to pack the boat away into the car then my biggest concern would be the weight of the engine. Weighing in at over 70kg it really is too heavy for one person to lift and an awkward shape for two people.
Take a look at the F-rib 375 and a Suzuki 20. That is about the largest frib setup which can easily be packed up into a car.

Chris, that definitely helps, thank you. A little bit more about me, I have a family of five with two dogs, so I think we really need the 430 but I am also concerned about the size of that boat / motor combination. I would very much prefer to be able to put the boat on the roof of my van and the motor inside, than worry about towing it all the time, especially to Croatia where I am also going to be very worried about parking it. I am not sure if the motor can be moved laying down or if it has to be standing up (I imagine that it is less of a concern for a 2-stroke though). If it has to stand up, I have a hitch on the van and can load it on my hitch carrier but I am much less excited about moving it that way. As far as the weight goes, I have an extra 35 kg's on the boat or the motor, so I am not too worried about moving them short distances or lifting the boat on top of the van, but I think it's going to be really important to see them both at the boat show in a couple of weeks before I commit to that (my eyes might be stronger than my back actually is ).

As far as a boat tour of the Rhine, I would be happy to host! (assuming the wife approves). We live aobut 10 minutes from the Rhine, have a couple guest bedrooms in the basement, and have plenty of parking where we live.

In terms of legalities and paperwork you might find this link useful as a starting point for Croatia: https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDo ... ailors.pdf Amongst other things I believe you may have to have compulsory insurance and carry ownership papers, along with an ICC - not sure what size boats this things relate to - may be exemptions for small boats but do check!

I understand in Germany the boating licenses you require will vary depending on where you are boating so I highly suggest you seek local advice and then also ask how you can use any local qualifications in Croatia.

Sarah, thank you for linking this! I did read it, and honestly it raised more questions than it answered, but I think that is a good thing. I hope to learn a lot in a couple weeks at the Dusseldorf boat show and imagine that there will be lots of resources there to help me and the fam get out on the water. Based on that document, I think a 430 would not be considered a vessel as it is less than 5 m's and doesn't have sleeping quarters, but I imagine that there would still have to be requirements with the harbourmaster in order to park it, etc. Having done a bit more research than when I first posted, I think that I would need a VHF radio which requires an international radio license, yes?

Are You planning on folding up the F-Rib and putting it in the car, or always trailering it behind the car?

Thanks for the welcome Chris, yes, I am planning on folding it up and putting it on the roof of our van with the motor either inside or on the hitch. Not sure if that is feasible or not, but that is what I am planning on now.

Thanks for the feedback and the warm welcome everyone!

- Adrian

[mm289]

Hi Adrian,

sure you will find trawling around the boat show very useful

I have a F-Rib 330 and 15hp 2 stroke so just from an experiental point of view I would not underestimate the challenges of the weights you are looking at.

When the F-Rib folds up it is about 4ft square and hence quite an awkward size to handle. My 330 weighs in at 43kg and whilst I could lift 50kg if it was 2 bags of cement, the awkward shape makes it very difficult. with two people however it is easy. The bit I would struggle with is loading onto a roof rack on a van. The 430 comes in at about 70kg so think lifting 3 bags of cement in one hit and an awkward shape as well. Even with 2 of you you will struggle to get it up to the roof height, mind you depending on how old the kids are they may be usefull.....

Engine has similar issues but is a bit more manageble, most people end up with a trolley of some sort made up from a sack barrow or a purpose built. I use a sack barrow and they also use this for loading the boat into my van and moving it around generally, means I can do most stuff on my own. When using my van (VW T25) I load it into the middle door or rear, on a newer van e.g. VW T5 I would be looking make space on the rear floor under the bedding area if possible.

HTH,

Cheers,

Paul.

[Mitch]

Hi Adrian & welcome to the forum, you seem to have got loads of info to dwell on, I think if your thinking of putting a 430 on top of the roof maybe a fork lift would come in handy as Paul states it’s not just the weight but the bulk of it folded up, I looked at the 375 & I felt it would be a bit too much for me to get into the car on my own so I went for a honwave, which takes two of us fishing but not a lot of room once all the gear is on board so would not be big enough for yourself.
Have a good look around at the boat show, hope you get something to suit.

[Sarah]

Hi, Sorry I missed the reference to the 5m in the document for the taxes - I will see if our contact in Croatia can clarify. I think going to the boatshow is a great plan to both look at boats and talk to people about rules and paperwork - enjoy and don't spend too much! Sarah

[Fly360]

I’ll chime in on the 430 weight and portability factor. My brand new 430 is still sitting in my garage awaiting the spring and the thawing of lakes and rivers. I’ve set it up and packed it away several times and have gotten a feel for its heft and what I can do with it.

First off, it’s a mandatory 2 person job unless you’re Andre The Giant. It’s not so much the 160lbs, it’s the awkward shape. You have to have one person on each side to move it at all. My wife is that second person, she’s quite petite and has trouble moving our couch, but she can pick up her side of the 430 no problem. We are going to transport ours in the back of our Tundra pickup so getting it to tailgate height is a bit of work but your van would be much easier with it’s lower height. You might even be able to transport the boat vertically in your van and then rest the motor next to it.

Secondly the motor, it’s a very different kind of heft. Smaller and usually has some grab handles, but very top heavy and there’s sharp metal trying to bang your shins. The 20hp 4strokes are manageable for me at 90ish lbs and I’m probably going to get the new 25hp Yamaha 4 stroke, about 125lbs. I’ve moved my friends identical 25hp around a bit and it’s not something that I’m excited about, but I can do it alone on level ground and a trolley will help considerably. I don’t think I could move the ETec by myself without risking dropping it! The new generation of 4 strokes are more portable than they used to be, talk to your dealer about specific models but most of them can be placed on their tiller side and some can even rest on the front or back. I’ll admit I’m completely biased against the the ETecs because of my friends bad experiences with them in larger outboards and snow mobiles. I have no personal experience with the 30hp model myself.

Here’s the performance test numbers I got from FRIB with the 430/20hp Suzuki.

Outboard motor – Suzuki 20hp

Load (adults) 75kg/165lbs- Speed (knots)
1- 27.8
2- 24.7
3- 23.5
4- 21.7
5- 18.7

I have no experience towing skiers or tubes behind a small vessel, I learned on a Bayliner with a 454! All I can say is that my friend does tow his wife on skis behind his 14’ Jon boat with that 25hp Yamaha.