Re: Waders / DrySuit - OR Not ???

[Paul B]

Well said Chris, We all take risks every day, and some are just doing normal day to day things, however when we go boating or kayaking etc, we take calculated risks and way up our options, which can all depend on many factors, weather, sea state, tides location, plus many more , If I’m going out on my own in my sib, I’d make sure I’ve got suitable safety gear on at all times, ie Life jacket, killcord, vhf and mobile phone sealed in a suitable bag and the appropriate clothing, which for me is usually drysuit, wet suit boots and jacket if needed , however if I’m boating with other boats for company , I’d maybe not have my drysuit on as there are others around me to help if I did get into trouble,

I also have waders which I occasionally use for launching, but again it’s a personal preference, and I don’t like them as I find them uncomfortable and restrictive to my movement,

It also depends on the craft you are going to be using at the time, on my sib the above is how I generally dress, but when I went out in my speedboat, it would depend on what I was going to be doing, Gentle cruise and it would be shorts and tee shirt with a lifejacket, ( weather permitting) , water skiing and it was either wetsuit or drysuit,

I also do a bit of kayaking as well, not to the degree that Douglas does, as you wouldn’t get me in one of them sea kayaks for anything or any amount of money , I have a couple of sit on types and generally when out on them the most I wear is a pair of shorts, t shirt and the BA. some would say that’s stupid, but I feel safe at all times and don’t go beyond my capabilities , in hindsight yes it could be seen as stupid, but again it’s a calculated risk , life’s one big risk

Basically dress for the occasion and weather conditions at the time,

[DouglasW]

Hi Martin,

Martin>

So basically what you’re saying then is anyone going on a boat without a dry suit on is a liability, an accident waiting to happen and you should have spent your money more wisely.

Absolutely not!!! As Chris and Paul have said, boating is an at risk activity and it is up to each person to make up their own mind about what is an acceptable risk to them and how to ameliorate it.

In the UK in 2016 104 people drowned from boats. (Another 196 drowned falling into water from land). That is why boaters are recommended to use flotation devices. However, a BA will not reduce your chance of dying from the immediate lung and cardiac complications of cold shock. A dry suit and fleece under will. When talking of cold water shock and "drowning" in water temperatures typically found round UK shores, Professor Mike Tipton in his book "Essentials of Sea Survival" says "

if you are lucky enough to survive long enough to die of hypothermia, you have done very well; most die in the first minute of immersion (from cold water shock)".

I was specifically advising a new comer who expressed an interest in boating in February. As the risks of boating in winter are much higher due to the cold seas I felt it worthwhile to recommend a dry suit over a fishfinder in those circumstances. Ideally people should make an informed choice about what to wear but to do that they need the facts to do so. Sadly there is a great ignorance of the dangers of cold shock in the UK, even amongst boaters.

It is up to everyone to make their own (hopefully well informed) choice. For example:

My friend David is a 75 year old vet who has been boating in everything from 10foot to 55feet since 1956. He has a wealth of sea experience.He has regularly sailed and raced from Scotland to Norway and back and has delivered several yachts from the Solent to the Clyde for other yachtsmen. Here he is on a calm sunny day at the end of March. The sea temperature is 8C. You can see the results of his risk assessment. Note that he has chosen not to wear his BA which is under the deck elastics. However, he has chosen to wear his dry suit because as a vet he knows of the dangers of cold shock. It was his choice to prioritise the dry suit over the BA. We made different choices, I chose to wear both on that day..

In the summer on my F-Rib I do not wear my dry suit. If the water is still cold but the air temperature is high I tend to wear Fourth Element thermocline shorts and T shirt. This is made of a microfleece inner with a stretchy breathable waterproof outer. Divers use it for prolonged swimming in warmer waters but it provides great short term protection against cold shock in cooler UK summer waters and yet is comfortable to wear aboard on a hot day.

Douglas

[DouglasW]

Well at last the danger of Cold Shock is creeping into public awareness.

Yesterday the BBC reported that Birdseye withdrew a televsion ad with a video of a man and his son jumping off a yacht in swim suits and the voicer over "Captain Birds Eye loves the simple things, like jumping into cold water on a hot day with his grandson."

A complaint was made by the mother of a 14 year old boy who died of cold shock immediately after jumping into a river on a hot sunny day in 2015.

Douglas

[DouglasW]

For the benefit of less experienced boaters reading the forum for advice on what to wear and the risks of boating in winter here are some interesting facts published by the US Coastguard that will help you decide what to wear.

In 2016 a total of 5967 vessels were involved in an accident that involved death or serious injury. 58 commercial vessels had no deaths, 8 government vessels had no deaths. In 5903 recreational vessels involved in an accident there were 701 deaths. Of these 701 deaths from recreational boats, 631 occurred in sheltered water, creeks or harbours and 70 occurred in coastal waters or the Great Lakes. Just looking at vessels under 16 feet (4.9m), there were 236 drownings. 83% of people who drowned were not wearing a floatation device. Of the 17% of people who drowned who were wearing a floatation device, the the majority involved water temperature of less than 60 F (15C)

Despite the fact that the majority of recreational boating activity takes place in the summer months, the majority of deaths occurred in the winter months. So the risk of death per outing is considerably higher in winter.

.

The causes of a person entering the water in a drowning accident were:
capsize 35%
falling overboard 33%
ejected from vessel 18%
voluntarily left vessel 14%.

Out of 351 deaths where it was known whether the boat operator had had any training 270 had had none.

Drownings per type of vessel:
45% of all drownings were from small open motorboats
14% of all drownings were from kayaks
0.8% of all drownings were from sailing/motor sailing boats
0 drownings from wind/kite surfers

There was a strong correlation between bigger outboard size increasing the chance of drowning but as Americans tend to have bigger outboards per size of boat than the UK, I am not sure how relevant that would be to the UK. However, excessive speed, improper lookout and operator inattention (which are all linked) were major factors in accidents leading to people involuntarily entering the water.

This is s fascinating insight into factors surrounding drownings from recreational craft. Several key factors emerge. Small open motorboats form the biggest category of craft that people drown from. More people die in winter accidents in sheltered waters. A floatation device will not prevent you drowning in cold water, presumably as it does not prevent death from cold shock.

These are the facts about the risks of boating in winter. I hope they help you decide what to wear when winter (or in the UK late spring) boating.

My personal decision for winter in a small boat is to wear a drysuit with a fleece undersuit and always to wear a flotation device.

With regard to flotation devices, crotch straps are very advisable and indeed if your waist measurement is similar to or greater than your chest measurement your flotation device will just rise up above your head without one. Be aware that a lot of cheap kayaking and windsurfing BAs on EBay do not come with crotch straps but the physical activity involved in those activities tends to lead to slimmer waists.

Douglas

[Andy B]

Fishfinder, yes definitely get the fishfinder. They seem a lot less trouble

[Namibiafrank]

Fishfinder, yes definitely get the fishfinder. They seem a lot less trouble

The thread got erm.... very topical, and ran off the rails somewhat,
All relevant posts regarding Waders etc have been moved to a new home...to a place of it's own..

[DouglasW]

Greetings Martin, thank you very much for recognising the importance of a topic on the dangers of winter boating and to Frankelsbikes for originally raising it. I think that both posts would be better moved to safety devices equipment and instruction as they will soon be lost in general chat.

Since you have split the thread, I am not sure that the title you have chosen for this part: Wader/Drysuit OR Not?? is the best. The key issue in both these threads is the danger of boating in winter if you fall into the water. This is completely different from falling into warm summer water.

Most boaters accept there is a risk of falling into water which is why they wear a floation device and a kill cord but neither of these will protect you from cold shock. This can kill you in under a minute after falling into water of 15C or less.

Personally, I would rename this part of the thread...

"Cold shock an often unappreciated risk of a winter boating accident."

Douglas

PS The suitability of waders for boating in either summer or winter is an entirely different subject.

[chris moody]

This is one of the best posts I have read on any boating forum for ages. I thought I knew a fair bit about sea survival, having done the RYA First Aid course every three years, and the RYA Sea Survival course about six years ago, but I have learnt loads from this thread.

[chris moody]

A very good point made by Douglas, but do bear in mind that as far as the sea is concerned, winter in the UK lasts for 9 months (because the sea temperature is 15C or less).

That's why wearing a lifejacket is so important, because even in June the effects of the cold water on your body means you will not be able to keep your airway clear of the water for very long without the aid of some personal flotation. There is a really good training video showing this, I'll try and find it.

Since you have split the thread, I am not sure that the title you have chosen for this part: Wader/Drysuit OR Not?? is the best. The key issue in both these threads is the danger of boating in winter if you fall into the water. This is completely different from falling into warm summer water.

Most boaters accept there is a risk of falling into water which is why they wear a floation device and a kill cord but neither of these will protect you from cold shock. This can kill you in under a minute after falling into water of 15C or less.

[chris moody]

I've found the video

This is why I personally wear some form of personal flotation all year round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt ... nL7T0tBCN8