Re: Waders / DrySuit - OR Not ???

Namibiafrank · Post by **Namibiafrank** » 31 Jan 2018, 13:44

Well I have to say this has been great helping me do things right from the start!
I have parted with the hard earned last night on a drysuit, my very first purchase into boating was a decent life jacket from the boat show last year.
I ride motorbikes and if you wear the right kit you ride with more confidence period.
Thanks for all the tales and insight to make the right decision[emoji108]

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

The Gurnard · Post by **The Gurnard** » 31 Jan 2018, 17:16

Its too c..c..c cold for me to go boating yet ..but I was getting cabin fever sitting in the house ... so put this video together. Guess Im just a daft old fool

If you wear waders in small boats .. be sure you know how to rescue yourself when you fall overboard . I would be interested in knowing how you do it too ..so please pass on the technique you use.
Direct link to U Tube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EB0sZZpbRQ

Best Regards
The Gurnard

DouglasW · Post by **DouglasW** » 31 Jan 2018, 17:54

Graphic demonstration Gurnard. Thanks to your cool hose work I have just realised that a dry suit is actually a Willy saver.

Douglas

The Gurnard · Post by **The Gurnard** » 31 Jan 2018, 19:08

DouglasW wrote:Graphic demonstration Gurnard. Thanks to your cool hose work I have just realised that a dry suit is actually a Willy saver.

Douglas

Is that why you use to tease me by calling me Wee Wullie Wulcox when we were wee ?

Just in case anyone thinks Im the only one who has these issues with waders ..here is the text from the guy Chris linked to.. who got an eye opener in the RNLI pool.

Link from Chris
http://f-ribsandsibs.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2295

And the text relevant to waders

“But I must come back to waders - as I alluded to somewhere above, if you are wearing a lifejacket and go in wearing waders, then it’s not actually being in the water in a pair of waders that becomes the main problem. Going into cold, potentially rough water and dealing with the shock and panic of that is far more of a problem, because even when your waders fill up with water you are not suddenly going to sink like a stone - the water in your waders is the same water as that outside of them. Different kinds of waders cause different kinds of issues when you are bobbing around, but there’s another issue here that I don’t ever see being addressed………..

Because I expected to see the benefits of wearing a lifejacket as opposed to not wearing one on Monday, and I did, the single thing that scared me the most was how hard it was to get out of that RNLI pool when my waders had filled up. Without a doubt a wading belt done up properly helps to slow the water filling up your waders, but it doesn’t stop it - that is a fact, period. If you went in and managed to somehow get out really fast then if your waders are not too full you should be ok if a bit of climbing up some rocks or whatever is required (and yes, on a beach you would hopefully be able to kind of beach yourself - whale ahoy with me!), but if you’re in the water for a while which then means you are potentially cold and stressed and fast losing your strength because of how hard you are needing to work to keep as much water out of your airways as possible, well let’s say for now that I am seriously having to explore some alternatives to chest waders, or at least finding the best way to cut them the hell open in order to get a load of water out of them.”

kaman · Post by **kaman** » 31 Jan 2018, 19:59

Come on Gurnard your no fooling me that easy!
That hose wasn't even turned on - you just drank too much tea and pished yourself

On a serious note I never wear waders in my Sib - other than when launching.
As soon as I'm in the Sib the kill cord is clipped to my life jacket and the waders are pulled off before I set off.
As a child growing up I was constantly reminded of a friend of my father's who was drowned in Loch Awe when he fell out of a boat wearing chest waders.
It was three days until his body was returnef from the murky depths

I bought a wet suit last year and it's the dogs danglies.
Way too warm to use in weather above 18 oc tho.
I am generally alway warmer than others atound me tho.
At last year's WWA I was in my shorts and tshirt on the first day.
On the return leg I wore my dry suit with light sports socks and boxers.
It was spot on.

Just goes ho show how quickly the weather can change.
For fishing in Feb / March I wore the thermal under garments it came with and it was spot on.
The Wetsuit Outlet seem to have hood deals.
Think I paid around 300 quid in all, but certainly a very worthy piece of sibbing equipment in my eyes

DouglasW · Post by **DouglasW** » 31 Jan 2018, 21:33

Frankelsbikes>

I have parted with the hard earned last night on a drysuit,

Well done Frankelsbikes. You will not regret spending your money wisely. There is a great temptation when you start a new hobby to put the money into techie things, usually the motor or electronics eg fishfinders!!! but in my case photographic gear. None of that gear is as importent as my BA and 9 year old dry suit. I treated it to a new set of seals at the beginning of January.

Chris>

Without personal flotation you will be very lucky to survive 45 minutes in the water even during the summer months anywhere in the UK, and in most places it will take that long for the RNLI / Coastguard to get to you. I never understand why anyone goes out in a boat without a buoyancy aid or lifejacket, but lots do (I see it every single day in the Solent)

I am totally with Chris, I always wear a flotation device when on the water. Even when windsurfing I wear a 45N BA. Most wind and kite surfers don't because it spoils their cool look.

Me showing my age, wearing my uncool BA.

Greg looking cool in his pretty board shorts and no BA....

Let me give you another of my formative personal water experiences....

Two and a half years ago I was windsurfing with a friend on the Solway. It was a perfect day, the sun was out, it was blowing F5-6 from the SW and the ebb tide was against the wind. It was gloriously rough and my friend and I were having a great time. Unfortunately he had a bad catapault fall and hurt his neck hitting the water about 25knots. He decided to call it a day but I decided to carry on on my own. It was only after a few runs that I realised my PLB was back on shore, on my sea kayaking BA, but I carried on. Well I also had a catapault fall but the force broke the UJ that connects the sail to the board. It was brand new but I had already returned a similar Item unused because it was not locking properly. Whatever, I was in the water still holding onto the boom but the board was rapidly disappearing away downwind. I tried to swim after it but it was gone. This was really bad news because it would have provided flotation, I could have lain on it and kept most of my body out of the cold water. I could also paddle the board with my arms faster than I could swim and it would have been easier to spot than a swimmer in the water. Meanwhile, the mast, boom and sail were hardly afloat. I was alone in a wild sea, I now cursed my stupidity for not going back to get my PLB. This was the first time I had ever gone to sea without a PLB during 11 years that I had had one! The only means of attracting attention were either waving my arms in the air or blowing my BA whistle, neither were going to work that distance offshore.

In these circumstances it would be all too easy to go into a blind panic. Waves were breaking over my head and I was so low in the water that I only glimpsed land briefly on the crest of a wave. I was over 1.5km off shore in an ebb tide. There were no other boats on the water. I knew no one in the caravan site would see me. I was in the water directly between the sun and the caravan site so no one would see my head in the glare. It was not looking good.

I treaded water beside my slowly sinking rig to gather my thoughts. The rig was all brand new and had cost about £1600 but I did not even think of trying to save it. Later a friend had suggested I should have tied my BA and my padded harness (which also has a fair bit of flotation) to the rig so that it would not sink so that I might be able to recover it later!!!

A few moments reflection and I quickly realised the plusses. I had my BA and the flotation of the harness. I had the full wetsuit and I was not cold, it also provided some flotation. I also knew the area and the tides. It was neaps and 3 hours after HW so I was able to calculate that the tide would be moving about 3km/hour. No chance of swimming against that but perhaps I could swim at right angles to it and land further down the coast? The tide runs parallel to the coast here. I do a lot of sea swimming and in calm water I swim a km in 30 minutes doing the breast stroke. But it was rough, I guessed I would take at least an hour to swim NW about 1.5 km to the coast going at right angles to the tide. During that time the tide would carry me about 3km down the coast. I was pretty sure that the mouth of the bay into the open Solway Firth was about 3-4km down tide so I should be able to make it.

I now had a survival plan and set off with never a glance back at my expensive rig. Straight away I found it difficult to do the breast stroke. I could not see the breaking waves coming at me from the side and had several frightening choking episodes after breathing sea water. So I turned on my right side to face the waves and did a side stroke. This was much better, I could time my breathing to avoid the worst of the white water. Another advantage of side stroke was that I could not see the land. While I had been doing the breast stroke I caught sight of the land between the waves but it never seemed to get nearer which was most dispiriting. So doing side stroke I would only look ahead every 5 minutes or so. This meant that I did notice the land getting closer.

In these circumstances it is easy for the enormity of the situation to get the better of you. If you let it, you are lost. There is a great book called Touching the Void by Joe Simpson. He has a broken leg alone near the summit of a mountain in the Andes. He drags himself down by just concentration on the little bit of ground in front of him. He breaks the whole journey, which seems impossible, into achievable little steps like getting to that next icicle just 3 meters away.

So in my own small way I did a Joe Simpson. I concentrated on each stroke and bit by bit I inched my way to land, as the empty stormy waters of the open Solway drew ever nearer on my left.

You can imagine my relief when my toe first touched the bottom, though it was another 300m or so before I got both feet on the sand though even then, I could not resist the sideways push of the tide. I collapsed on the shore exhausted, humbled but safe.

Was I lucky? Was I well prepared? Was I an idiot not going back for my PLB? Did I keep my head? One thing is for sure, because of the flotation provided by my BA and harness I was able to put most of my effort into moving forward rather than trying to keep afloat and get my head up to breathe in the waves. The other thing that saved me is that the wet suit kept me warm enough to keep my muscles working to swim. If I had not been wearing a full wetsuit, the water was so cold that the blood supply to my limbs would have shut down making swimming impossible.

Think these sort of things won't happen to you? Well as Clint Eastwood would say:

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?'

Boating offers a great sense of freedom and is great fun but you need exercise that freedom responsibly and to approach the sea in a a responsible way, the sea takes no prisoners.

For me this photo encapsulates the fun and freedom of boating in a small craft. Sunny, calm, really close to the wildlife but the water temperature was 8C. I was wearing a drysuit!!!

Safe boating fun.

Douglas

YouTube · Post by **Martin** » 31 Jan 2018, 22:59

Well this has all got very topical.
Not quite sure what direction some of the comments were aimed but I’ll stand by my suggestion to the O/P for the following.
He’s new to sibbing, he doesn’t like the cold, therefor highly unlikely to be out in wet/windy weather.
His location is not Scotland, he’s down in the warmer south. I’ve been out swimming in the Solent regularly (but not in the last 4yrs admittedly)
As money has been mentioned (other threads too) I was trying to suggest an alternative to a full dry suit, something that would allow him to get out in the water in his newly purchased craft... saving him a few pennies to put towards an already mentioned vhf. As he’s more likely going to be out in southern waters where there’s many many more craft about a vhf would be a great investment imo. It’s not all about falling overboard, he may have another issue where a plb or vhf would be most handy.

Going back to the topic, If I was out on my own, up north, in the cold-wet-windy seas, then yes- I too may invest in a full suit.
I realise there’s no price limit on safety, but not everyone has the funds to buy the expensive gear some members can afford.

DouglasW · Post by **DouglasW** » 01 Feb 2018, 08:25

Martin>

His location is not Scotland, he’s down in the warmer south.

Hi Martin, the reality is that sea temperature in the "warmer" south is little different from the west coast of Scotland. The OP mentioned February when the average sea temperature in the Solent is 8C and in the Firth of Clyde 7.5C. Both are more than cold enough to kill within seconds of immersion. Both the Solent and the Clyde are below 12C for 6 months of the year including the popular spring and early summer months when many will be boatiing.

Monthly average sea temperatures degrees C Solent and Firth of Clyde

People do fall out of boats even in calm weather, that is why we wear life jackets. Many people who appreciate the drowning risk do not appreciate the other fatal complications of cold water. Saving a few pennies does not compare with saving a life. Many on this forum are boating in the winter, including new comers who cannot wait to get on the water.

A cheap new dry suit costs £225, there are cheaper SH on EBay. Someone who can afford to buy a car, a boat and an engine (not to mention a fishfinder) and drive to the coast can easily afford to buy a drysuit if they choose.

Fortunately recreational boating in the UK is free from lots of regulations, so we have the freedom to make choices in how to equip ourselves. I believe that the factual information in this thread will help people make an informed choice about what best to wear for their circumstances.

Douglas

YouTube · Post by **Martin** » 01 Feb 2018, 09:42

So basically what you’re saying then is anyone going on a boat without a dry suit on is a liability, an accident waiting to happen and you should have spent your money more wisely.

chris moody · Post by **chris moody** » 01 Feb 2018, 11:10

Not sure where that idea came from Martin????

I'm out on the water tomorrow, without a drysuit, I'm taking a calculated risk. If I fall in the water tomorrow I am under no illusions as to what will happen. I can guarantee I will not be capable of getting myself back into the boat, or even back into the boats liferaft unaided, due to cold water shock, and the others I am with don't have the experience or skills to get me back aboard or into the liferaft. So I'm stuck in the water until the emergency services get to me. It will involve a Mayday call, the vessels own liferaft being deployed, an RNLI boat or a Coastguard helicopter in attendance, and a stay in hospital due to definite hypothermia and possible secondary drowning. I won't drown before the RNLI get to me because I'll be wearing a lifejacket with crotch straps and spray hood, but without the lifejacket I would most likely have drowned before the RNLI arrive on scene. I have risk assessed the situation for the type of vessel I will be in, and I'm happy to take that very small risk.

Martin wrote:So basically what you’re saying then is anyone going on a boat without a dry suit on is a liability, an accident waiting to happen and you should have spent your money more wisely.