Re: Honda Marine - Honwave Air Floor Range- (Quality Control Issues)

[chris moody]

ADMIN EDIT>>>
These posts have been removed from a Honwave floor topic, Rather than deleing posts, they are relevant so they have been moved to this new topic..

ADMIN

I am very surprised that the Honwave brand is still being recommended by members of this forum. If I as a new boater purchased a Honwave based on recommendations that "it's a great sib", and then discovered that these quality control issues were known about, and there are numerous faulty boats being supplied by the manufacturer, I would feel that I had been seriously miss led in that advice.

[billysince1976]

I am very surprised that the Honwave brand is still being recommended by members of this forum. If I as a new boater purchased a Honwave based on recommendations that "it's a great sib", and then discovered that these quality control issues were known about, and there are numerous faulty boats being supplied by the manufacturer, I would feel that I had been seriously miss led in that advice.

Chris, the vast majority of the Honwave boats are not faulty, they simply have a larger tolerance on the floor than you (and many others) would accept. Actual real world useage has shown that the asymmetrical floor, while not as good as it could be, makes no difference whatsoever to the performance of the boat. You will make a much bigger impact on the handling of the boat by changing which tube you sit on!
Obviously there have been some genuinely bad boats such as the leaky one reported on one of the other threads and Mitch’s original boat which wouldn’t plane properly.

I really hope that we can find a better alternative to the Honwave as Honda aren’t about to change their manufacturing based on a handful of users complaints. As someone said (brerabit or Harrison, I think) Honda only make boats to sell their engines.

I think that the reason people aren’t flocking to fill this thread with examples of their faulty boats is because most of us have either got it sorted, accepted a slight asymmetry or not bought a Honwave at all.

As previously stated I would advice anyone to consider a T38 but I would also tell them that there have been some bad ones and that they need to check that the keel is straight. I emphasise straight. If one side is slightly lower than the other this really makes no difference provided that the line of the keel strip is straight from bow to stern. At the moment I haven’t encountered another SIB which I would recommend over the Honwave for performance and comfort at the same or similar price-point. I’m not saying that one doesn’t exist, just that I haven’t encountered it.

I am not defending what we perceive to be poor quality control, simply that the standard we are holding them to is higher than the standard to which they are manufactured so we are always setting ourselves up for disappointment. What is frustrating is that the original T38 was an outstanding boat.

If we can find a viable alternative then I would happily get rid of my Honwave and buy that. The excel Volaire may be that alternative, but I haven’t seen one yet. I don’t think the Volante will be a viable alternative as it is essentially the same as my old zodiac only with an air deck rather than a plywood one and the Honwave runs rings around that.

[Fishingribs]

I am very surprised that the Honwave brand is still being recommended by members of this forum. If I as a new boater purchased a Honwave based on recommendations that "it's a great sib", and then discovered that these quality control issues were known about, and there are numerous faulty boats being supplied by the manufacturer, I would feel that I had been seriously miss led in that advice.

Steady on @chris moody - for you to insinuate we may be misleading people is a little strong.
Yes we do highlight the strength of the Honwave range, but since we’ve been aware of this floor issue on the IE range of boats I think it’s fair to say we’ve highlighted the afore mentioned to any potential purchaser.
I’ll also add we’ve then assisted to the best of our ability anyone who decided to order a boat and then found they had received a wonky one.

Finding a comparable or replacement to the T38ie will prove nigh on impossible, just as it would trying to find an aerotec replacement.
Each of these boats are distinctive .. As are many others, Thats the beauty of choice. There is no perfect boat, Only a boat thats near perfect to your personal / family needs..Buy what's right for you.

You will find a boat that does what it’s designed to do, some parts of it may exceed the Honwave or other crafts strengths, but in other aspects it could fail miserably compared to the Honwave.

I have tried for the last 5 years to include the excel range in the forum, I’ve spoken to them directly but hit a brick wall every time.
I do hope excel or any other manufacturer manages to produce an all rounder as capable and user friendly as the T38ie2

Perhaps it’s time F-Ribs & Sibs manufactured the ultimate sib


Martin

[Brerabit]

You make some very good points, @chrisparish although, even by my standards -
“the vast majority of the Honwave boats are not faulty, they simply have a larger tolerance on the floor than you (and many others) would accept”.
- is one of the most highly polished turds I’ve ever come across.

But ribbing aside, I agree with most of your post.

We’re not going to influence Honda one jot. We are niche users with demands which exceed their commercial interests. Negative comments on this forum may affect a handful of sales but not enough for them to lose sleep over. Worldwide, I would think our influence on their sales would not rise above the noise.

The issue here, irrespective of how good a T38 could be or has been, is whether this forum can recommend a product which is known to have sub-optimal quality control, to potentially inexperienced buyers looking for sound advice - unless it is accompanied with a very strong and explicit health warning. Because there is a significant risk that as a result of that advice, an inexperienced buyer, without the knowledge to balance all the pro’s and con’s, is going to have a bad day.

Whichever of the various manifestations of QC failures with which you’re inflicted is immaterial if you’ve just invested a few grand in a boat and motor only to find you’ve now either got to put the whole game on hold while you deal with the hassle of negotiating a replacement or, accept a boat that looks not so much like a Friday afternoon boat, as one that was put together on Friday night; on the way back from the pub.

[Fishingribs]

Because there is a significant risk that as a result of that advice, an inexperienced buyer, without the knowledge to balance all the pro’s and con’s, is going to have a bad day.

Ah - here is an issue. I completely disagree with you. The asymmetry on the floor makes no difference to the handling or performance of the boat and poses no risk to the buyer - if it did then someone should be suing Honda by now.
I know there have been genuine issues such as the the recent leaky floor but all manufactures have the odd problem - for example F-Ribs had a habit of leaking through the floor joints at one point. I haven’t encountered anyone else complaining of leaks.
If I though that anyone would be injured then I would recommend that they stay away from the Honwave.
I have a Honwave with an asymmetrical floor and I have spent several hours in Harrison’s boat which has a more pronounced asymmetry and they perform just fine and are safe.

Although a polished turd I believe that my previous statement is essentially true even if not really acceptable.

The T38 is a damned good boat despite the asymmetrical floor and I think one or two people are blowing it out of proportion. I know it isn’t right and it would be great if they could get them all right but clearly their idea of acceptable is different from other people’s.
I’m not fond of the asymmetry on my floor but the grin on my face more than makes up for it when I am out on the water.

Point me at a boat which is a viable alternative and I will buy one.

[Brerabit]

You’re loyalty to the marque is commendable @ChrisParish and I am genuinely pleased that you get so much pleasure from your T38, I don’t think it’s ever been in question that the T38 was a good boat and that even a new one as long as it’s only slightly skewif is still ok.

But if you were a newbie having lashed out circa £1000 pounds, wouldn’t you be a tad disappointed if, on opening the box, you were then faced with trying to evaluate whether, with minimal expertise, you’d been lucky enough to get a good one, one with acceptable faults or a total reject. How bent is acceptable? Even then you don’t know whether it’s going to leak the first time you take it out. Poor quality control could contribute to relatively minor issues like a gently meandering keel or something latent which only becomes a serious problem later.

If, as has been said, the majority of their buyers are relatively undemanding and as long as the thing stays afloat between the gin palace and the taxi, job’s a good’n, then fine. But if you’re an enthusiast - or want to be, something that’s not quite right is inevitably going to be bit disappointing. I’m sure you and @harrison would love your boats that little bit more if they were straight.

I really fail to see how a product which currently has such variable quality could be considered a viable purchase without some intervention by dealers to guarantee a trouble free purchase. Based on what I’ve learnt about Honwave sales, dealers are reluctant to erode already tight margins checking these boats. If they do and find a duff one, they’ve then got a return on their hands and hassle with the distributor. Alternatively, inspite of the fact it may be off, they can just chuck it out there and see if it sticks.

I suggest that’s probably harsh but sound business practice and that you’re going to have to pay extra if you want to avoid disappointment.

I’m in no position to recommend an alternative as I’ve only just started but so far I appear to have had beginners luck in that my Volaire doesn’t leak, is as straight as a die, rides as though it has built in shock absorbers, turns on the proverbial 2.5p and takes off like a stabbed rat.

You are more than welcome to try it some time Chris, I would really welcome your opinion - but please, no cross channel jaunts. I prefer to enjoy my sibing rather than endure.

[Martin]

You are more than welcome to try it some time Chris, I would really welcome your opinion - but please, no cross channel jaunts. I prefer to enjoy my sibing rather than endure.

That's the sort of offer i'm awaiting as and when i can get myslef southbound.
I've been known to put a sib or two through an enduring hoon and i'd gladly offer my findings...
Perhaps this sib-off (Ultimate sib test) or whatever we choose to call it needs a bloody good shake up, grabbing by the horms and doing a wide range of boats will spit a few answers.
I don't think offering two differnt boats with different engines and different people/weights answers anything.

Martin.

[chris moody]

I’ve just been back to the Excel showroom this afternoon and I had a really good look at the Excel Volaire range. Build quality is definitely good, and the floor construction looks really innovative. The floor was far firmer than I was expecting. I think the Excel Volaire 390 has the possibility of being better all round than the Honwave T38ie.
.

Point me at a boat which is a viable alternative and I will buy one.

[ChrisParish]

Excellent news, @chris moody. I would love to see one myself, I am hoping that @Brerabit will come to one of our outings because if the Volaire is any good I would love a 4.3m version as I would like a bigger boat.

What was the V like?

[ChrisParish]

You are more than welcome to try it some time Chris, I would really welcome your opinion - but please, no cross channel jaunts. I prefer to enjoy my sibing rather than endure.

I would dearly love that. We don’t tend to do long endurance runs, the sea state was just a bit worse than we were expecting on the last run!